Quote, "I am a big fan of Ron Paul, and the stance of honoring and protecting the Constitution by limiting the powers of Government.  Call me crazy, but can we not have a solution that does not involve an attempt to dissolve the United States of America?"

What PAC recommends people do is to reclaim their inalienable rights under the law of the land, the common law, by reclaiming their dejure nationality, which is the specific remedy that the United States, as a body politic and legislative person, has created by statute in accordance with international law, the Law of Nations.  It is the remedy for those that are sick and tired of participating in the 14th Amendment democracy.  The courts have defined this remedy as a "political choice".  After the War Between the States and Reconstruction a new, alternate, body politic was created by Reconstruction and specifically the 14th Amendment, this is what is commonly referred to as the 'democracy'; however, in order to maintain the principles of lawful government, which is that governments get their just powers from the consent of the governed, the United States, had to keep the door open to the original body politics, the nations, countries, the dejure republics, the several states.  The door is public knowledge because it was created by public law, but it is hidden from plain sight for We the People themselves and their posterity to maintain their control.

The remedy to reclaim an original, pre-14th Amendment nationality, referred to in the United States Code as national of a state, does not dissolve the United States, it only returns the United States to its original position of not having any direct business on a state national living in his dejure country/republic unless he, individually, decides to engage in a private activity which the United States has the enumerated right to control, like interstate commerce.  The political choice is choosing which nationality (national of the United States or a state national), and by that act choosing the body politic, the 14th Amendment democracy which is the body politic for nationals of the United States or the dejure republican form of government which is the body politic for nationals of a state.

See Title 8 U.S.C. Section 1101(a)(21) and 1101(a)(22) for a statutory glimpse of these two distinct nationalities.  It is important to remember that nationality is an inalienable right, but citizenship is a privilege.  A man has a natural right to change his nationality, and the laws of the United States reflect this natural right.    

By choosing to stay in the democracy as a 14th Amendment national of the United States and engaging the political process trying to fix what was meant to be broken is a trap, a snare to keep you in the condition of a human resource, a bond servant of the public credit system.  No disrespect to Ron Paul, for without Ron Paul we would not have had our lawful money returned to us in 1986 so that we may once again 'pay our debts at law' with United States coin instead of 'discharging our debts in equity' under HJR 192; however, Ron Paul should know all of the above,  and he should also know that the Federal Reserve is an eleemosynary trust, a charitable trust, where all the common wealth of a nation is deposited, like the golden calf of the Israelites of old, and since it is an eleemosynary charitable trust the terms and conditions of that trust are that it cannot be audited, and Ron Paul is smart enough to know that, so my opinion is that his bill to audit the Fed is just another 'dog and pony' show for the nationals of the United States to keep them 'believing' in their 14th Amendment democracy and if only a 'good' leader were in there we could have the 'change' we deserve.

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Abe,

A couple of more thoughts:

You said "Why can't we simply reduce the power of government?" I think it's pretty clear that you cannot do this as a 14th Amendment citizen. When in your lifetime has gov't shrunk, rather than grown? By becoming a state national, you are reducing the power of gov't.


You said "Don't we need an FDA, a CDC, and many other Federally-run organizations that help our country?" I would argue that these alphabet agencies do more harm than good, especially when they are controlled by the likes of former Monsanto executives, as is the case with the FDA. As for the CDC, I'm suspicious of their complicity in such things as the fear tactics used recently regarding the H1N1 virus, and the push for vaccinations—it seems like nothing more than a way to increase the pharmaceutical industries profits, by instilling fear in the populace.

You said "I am a big fan of Ron Paul, and the stance of honoring and protecting the Constitution by limiting the powers of Government." I was a big fan of Ron Paul, too, but any more I'm thinking he's merely "controlled opposition"—give the people hope that there's SOMEONE in gov't that's fighting for them, and they'll continue to waste their energies in the system. I agree with Federal Farmer—he's a smart guy, he has to understand what has been wrought by the 14th Amendment, but has done nothing to correct it. I would also argue that the Constitution was never about limited gov't, but in fact a coup by the proponents of a strong central gov't—the Hamiltonians (Federalists) won against the Jeffersonians (anti-Federalists). Read "No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority" by Lysander Spooner, and a book called "Hologram of Liberty" by Kenneth Royce.

You said "Call me crazy, but can we not have a solution that does not involve an attempt to dissolve the United States of America? Can't we just strongly reduce the amount of power and involvement that the Federal Government has?" We are not attempting to dissolve the United States, but we are trying to reduce the amount of power and involvement the Fed Gov't has, the only real way possible, one person at a time.

You said "...but what exactly will that accomplish, unless we all do it together and simultaneously?" And this right here is the crux of our problem: we need numbers. We need as many people as we can get to become state nationals, so we can get down to the business of applying political pressure on the current de facto system. You have to understand that the system as it is was meant to be broken, and there is no effective way to change it from within. Only by removing ourselves from it and asserting our de jure status, can we hope to change things.

JWJones wrote on Mar 13th, 2010 at 8:35am:

One person at a time, is correct. Turning them into men and women.

Great discussion everyone!

Farmer & JW,

Thank you for more clearly explaining what you mean, and what is meant by withdrawing from the government of the United States of America.

I have a few more questions to follow up on this:

1. If one withdraws from the USA to regain his citizenship / nationality with his individual state of choice, are any special procedures necessary when changing residency from state to state? For example, I currently live in Illinois for medical school, but I plan on living in Iowa someday. If I withdraw from my national citizenship and become a citizen of the 'nation' of Illinois, how hard would it be to switch my citizenship over to Iowa when I move?

2. In addition to losing my privilage to vote for a US President, what other privilages do I lose when I unregister with the USA? Will I still have to pay taxes? Can the IRS prosecute me or cause problems for me if I don't? Will I still be eligible to have a drivers license? Will I still be eligible to be drafted by the military? Will I still be eligible to receive financial aid for my schooling through the FAFSA program, a federal program which I am extremely dependent upon for paying for my education?

3. How does one unregister as a USA citizen, and re-register as a citizen of his or her nation-state? How complicated is it? Any fees involved?

4. How does one acquire the Red Amendment, is it free, or if not, how much does it cost?

I am very intrigued, but also very hesitant. I still would like to see if Ron Paul can fix some stuff, I think his efforts to expose the Federal Reserve would be an enormous improvement to our government, because exposing the corruption there will lead to exposed corruption elsewhere, allowing us to "suck the venom" out of our political system. Still, I see what you all are saying about the "dog and pony show", and I have always been skeptical of the two-party system just for that reason...

...but I do honestly feel somewhat faithful that with the brave enough person in office, he would resist the corrupt pressures around him. Call me naive, but that is just my 2 cents.

I will definitely try to read the Red Amendment this summer to better understand what this whole situation is about, but thanks also for helping me answer my questions in the mean time.

Thanks,

-Abe

I am going to correct your use of the word(s), "citizen and citizenship"  At this point in the political history of the United States of America there is really only one citizenship, and that is the 14th Amendment citizenship,  the correct legal terminology would just be a "national", I am a native and national of Iowa, I have a national domicile by birth in Iowa.  If I choose to move to Florida, Florida is a country foreign to the country of Iowa, and if I am planning to remain in Florida permanently, rather than just a temporary stay, I can choose to become a Florida national and have an acquired national domicile in Florida.  Remember this point: nationality is a right, citizenship is a privilege. 

Get the Red Amendment and read it, it costs $35.00 and is worth many, many times that this thread: http://www.notmygovernment.us/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1252089368

Think of the Federal Reserve as the United States' golden calf, like the Israelites of old.  That golden calf was not really a pagan idol of worship like we think of today, many city states made their consenting "members"/"citizens" deposit their personal wealth into a molten statue.  This act was to bind the people to the city state in times of distress.  If the city state were attacked, as an example, the people would be more likely to stay and fight to defend their interest in the golden statue.  The Federal Reserve serves the same purpose.  The Fed like I stated before was established as an eleemosynary trust, a religious, charitable trust, where all the wealth and property of the United States and it's citizens is deposited as collateral for the public credit system under House Joint Resolution 192.  When this was done the titles to land/real estate in the United States were split, the original good and clear title (allodial) was split into two titles, one legal (right of use and possession, this is the title the people have on their property, see Senate document 43, Senate resolution 62 of 1933) one equitable (right of beneficial interest, this is the title the State and the Fed have on the property.) This again, is a tragic repeat of the past.  When the Israelites prayed to Pharaoh for relief from the famine, Pharaoh took the equitable title to their property and demanded a tribute to be paid, a tax, and the people used a unfunded fiat currency in the form of clay scarabs.  When the body politic of the United States prayed to a central bank for relief from the 'great' depression, the same thing happened.

There is an old adage that goes, gold is the currency of kings, silver is the currency of gentlemen, barter is the currency of peasants and credit is the currency of slaves.  We can freely choose which currency to use.  We do not need Congress to end the Fed, the people can end the Fed by not using the Fed.

We have a choice.  We can choose to use the banks or we can choose to avoid the banks by using some form of substance as a medium of exchange, trade and barter, blank postal money orders, or if out of necessity Federal Reserve notes, if no other alternative is available.  If the people really wanted to end the Fed, they need to stop praying to their god, Congress, which benefits from the Fed, to end the Fed.  They can end the Fed themselves by not using the Fed.

Abe,

Although I have yet to go through the process myself (unlike FF), I will try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge:

1) If you become a state national in one republic and then move to another later, I believe you would simply need to file the appropriate paperwork with your new state, upon moving there. Alternately, you could just declare Iowa as your state from the beginning, I believe, or declare your birth-state.

2) As you would no longer be a federal citizen, you would not vote, pay taxes, or be drafted. I guess the IRS could try to prosecute you, but they would have no standing, as you would not be a U.S. citizen. As the state gov'ts are also in rebellion (de facto), you would not have a state issued drivers license, except in some special cases (talk to LeAnne about this). As FAFSA is a federal program, you would not be eligible, I would imagine.

3) Info form here:

http://www.pacinlaw.us/pdf/grp/MN_00_Form.php

Oh yeah:

4) http://www.redamendment.net/home/

Well, I see that realistically I will not be able to pursue this any time soon, because I will rely on FAFSA to pay for me medical education until 2013 when I graduate. It is unfortunate, but necessary.

As for The Red Amendment, I understand that books require effort and time to write, but how do you expect people to read this crucial information if it costs $35? That is quite a bit of money for a book, in fact, you can buy video games for much cheaper than that nowadays.

Any reason why the book costs so much? I know it is worth it, and I definitely plan on reading it myself closer towards the end of my schooling, but don't you think lowering the price would help spread the information farther?

Thanks for all this great information guys, I am thoroughly intrigued and excited to purchase and read the book, but I won't be doing it for a year or two I imagine. I want to time it right so that I read the book just as I graduate from medical school, so I can use the information I learn to act and remove myself from the system.

I am kind of excited

Thanks for the help,

-Abe

And how much were your books to become a doctor Abarhm?

And in the meanwhile they are teaching you how to not cure anyone but put them on pills for the rest of their lives so much for doctoring. 

I agree that knowledge is priceless, and that my medical books are WAY overpriced, but still, you have to understand how unwilling to change people are, so if we truly desire a better world, and if we can afford it, we need to be spreading the information far and wide, no matter the cost.

One of the most important 9/11 books you will ever read, recently written by Mr. Andrew Johnson, is available for a 10 dollar donation to combat the cost of the production, but there is also an option to download it for free as well. I encourage you to check it out if you ever have time, because our situation is something even greater than the 14th Amendment.

Please read: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2469003/9-11%20-%20Finding%20the%20Truth.pdf ;

Trust me, I will buy the book when I have the time to read it and when I can act on it as well. I hate to say it, but I am stuck in the system as long as I reely on Financial Aid. Sucks for me.

Thank you for all the info folks,

-Abe

I say all I do with a smile on my face, so don't take me too terribly serious, but do.

It seems you're bent on becoming Piled High and deeper. Am sure you've heard them all, and if not, but imagine there's more than this:

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~taneja/phd.html

Don't know if you have read the posts, but there are those within this forum who have literally given up their "other" lives, quite utterly successful ones, only to do what they feel is the correct thing to do once enlightened to the information they have found within PAC and TRA. Everyone makes that choice for themselves. It is not an easy road to travel, and harder yet for some to give up that path they're already on because it's been raining and they can't seem to break free of the muck and mire.

The book is probably around the same or less than some cable TV bills. Too, when one figures in the cost of ink, binding, paper, machinery to print, shipping and handling, cost of building to house this machinery and materials, cost of electricity, and so on, it's really not all that much. Practically all of the money is put right back into creating more books to send out for those who order them. So, you state that knowledge is priceless. Just how priceless is it, really?

However, there's tons of free information buried deep within the PAC portal sites, which I liken to a treasure hunt. One certainly must work to get to them all. There are links to articles galore! As you know, one who will be educated is not lazy.

Yes, 9/11 and the truth about it is one of the things that has happened and the message of that truth will awaken people. However, "Everywhere you turn, there's the 14th Amendment!" Trumps it, in my humble estimation. Don't get me wrong, here. What happened on 9/11 was horrid and unimaginable and the truth should be out there. However, the information in The Red Amendment will lead you to better understand why this happened in the first place, and that is the more important question. For instance, just how do you keep a "quiet" war going? Just so happens that the 14th Amendment has everything to do with 9/11, but one will never pull it together without all the information.

Lastly, weighing options, one decides what they will do in the end and they will be stuck with it, more than they know. Let's just hope they have all the correct information to make such a weighty decision. So, some will continue to rely on the system and some of us will have to dig out of some very deep defecation just to become "without" the United States...not taking benefit from...because of the decisions we have made, kicking ourselves because, had we known sooner, we would not have dug the outhouse hole so deeply and allowed ourselves to have fallen in.

Have you listened to episode 11?

http://pacinlaw.us/talkshoe

Mind altering!

However, should you prefer my shorter version of what I just said above, don't be a cheapskate, buy the book for the knowledge is, indeed, invaluable. I know a lot of people who toss that change in the old glass jar to save up for something they want, us included.


Regards,
LeAnne

LeAnne wrote on Mar 18th, 2010 at 3:26am:


Abe, it is crucial that you understand what LeAnne is saying in this paragraph right here. 9/11 is merely a symptom of the deeper problem. Actually, considering that you are studying to be a doctor of allopathic medicine (am I correct?), which is primarily concerned with treating symptoms, rather than causes, your fixation with 9/11 seems somewhat appropriate.

Let me ask you this: If an event similar to 9/11 occurred tomorrow, would you then switch your focus to fixating on that event, or would you perhaps start to wonder "why are these events happening, what is the root cause?"

I'm reminded of a Thoreau quote: "There are thousands hacking at the branches of evil, to one who is striking at the root."

Go for the root, my friend, not the branches.

hey there abe! after viewing these previous posts, i thought i was witnessing a train wreck, but, i like the way you steered out at the end. The last major paradigm shift you must finally make is the "U. S. is a nation" notion.  Yes, the several states are nation states. This is the DeJure contitutional construction that our, much quoted founders, established. The federal constitution expressly creates " more perfect Union", not Nation.
       Required reading is your state constitution. The first thing you may notice is how its more specific to the individual human interactions. And more importantly, the rights that U. S. citizens love to cite enumerated in the federal con., as an afterthought, in the amendments, is enumerated, as the main objective, nestled firmly in the organic Articles of the your state constitution!  For example, my right to bear arms is expressed in Art. I, sect. IV of the Ohio constitution. The People exist , in a Dejure sense, in the states.  The 14th Amd. is part of the Fed con. and created a new body polotic, a De Facto democracy, rule of man over rule of Law. 51
percent can now "do as thou wilt". Its one of the great lessons of ancient Greece. Democracies always lead to tyranny.  It is the Republic, in all its nuaces, that is truly the more enlightened form of government, if we MUST have one.  NoNWO!

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Please go here:

http://www.notmygovernment.us/register

And click on where it has the little arrow and says REGISTER NOW, Click Here and read that, please.  Thanks! Our right to bear arms comes from God.

This article over on RTR put up by Jim is a pretty decent posting:

http://www.restoretherepublic.net/article.php?article_id=2879

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Excellent quote, JW!