Would like to thank WIZARD for this suggestion.
As this is the crux of the issue, should have been one of the original polls  [smiley=uhmm.gif]

Download the PAC Voter Rescission Letter here www.pacinlaw.us/rescind

Is there any concern for this being a "form letter" in the future? I know that some Corporate Governments have said that once they start getting a form letter they don't consider the letter valid.

My 2 cents.

Mic Helms wrote on Nov 18th, 2009 at 10:57am:

Is there any concern for this being a "form letter" in the future? I know that some Corporate Governments have said that once they start getting a form letter they don't consider the letter valid. My 2 cents.

Good point!

There are a couple of factors here:

1) People do not study enought to be able to put their own letter together;
2) This would not be an issue if people were working together as State Nationals.

I have been in this movement for 15 years and I see nothing getting better.
People seem to want to be islands. Cest la vie, as the French would say.

The other problem to over come besides the island syndrome is getting people that are part of the "matrix" to realize the real problem in the first place.  Most want to change the system from within, they are so indoctrinated by illusion of voting and democracy that they can't see the forest for all the trees.

It's interesting that within the system people are combative against each other and always trying to best each other, but they *believe* that they are a community.

Give them a real community, and they are stand-offish and afraid to even check it out.

I wonder how we can counteract such brainwashing.

I am sorry but I have to vent.  I was just sent an email that contained an audio file of a gentleman I spoke to regarding the 14th amendment system the other night.  This man was on the Glenn Beck radio program today, and this man that I spoke with was getting all excited about what I was saying about the Red Amendment, but when he was on Beck's show  today he was blathering on about voting and getting everybody to work together to save the Constitution and how this young politician in Omaha was going to make a difference and everyone just needed to get behind a leader like this young man that will restore the Constitution.  And the thought that came into my brain, while I was pulling out my hair and biting right through my tongue, was the George Bernard Shaw's quote, "With liberty comes great responsibility, which is why most men dread it."  This man, whom I spoke to the other night, blathering on about rights and freedoms to Glenn, I'm a puppet" Beck has no desire to be free.  He wants to vote for a leader that will not only take care of him, but at the same time provide him with the rights of a free man.  WOW! He wants what never was and never will be.  How sad.  Thanks for letting me vent my frustration.

Freedom is not for everyone, we cannot save the whole herd.

I agree. We should not be able to presume that we can save the whole herd. I think that this makes us bite off much more than we can handle. However, KNOWING that people like this gentleman exist, should help us to caveat our speech with things like Bernard said.

Saying that PAC members know the solution, does not mean that we can expect people to accept it and integrate what we know into their lives.

I think the assumption should always be, "This is there for those who want it."

I like to say things like "most people aren't serious about it" since that instills a decision process in the person listening. They have to decide if THEY themselves are serious about it. If they are, we have someone who will now spend their energy trying to find out all about what PAC knows. If not, then we won't waste our time beating a "dead horse."

2 cents.... no refunds.

Federal Farmer wrote on Nov 18th, 2009 at 2:56pm:

Beck has no desire to be free.  He wants to vote for a leader that will not only take care of him, but at the same time provide him with the rights of a free man.  WOW! He wants what never was and never will be.  How sad.  Thanks for letting me vent my frustration. Freedom is not for everyone, we cannot save the whole herd.

I agree about Glen Beck. Now that things are going into final phases, people are seeing it.

As far as the people who decide to save their souls and get out of the American scheme, well, it is here.

We have a lot of work ahead of us, folks. That is, to not be sucked-down by these panty-wastes.

And, you can vent your frustrations here anytime, FF... You are a State National!

Regards, LB

Mic Helms wrote on Nov 18th, 2009 at 2:43pm:

It's interesting that within the system people are combative against each other and always trying to best each other, but they *believe* that they are a community. Give them a real community, and they are stand-offish and afraid to even check it out. I wonder how we can counteract such brainwashing.

This seems to be as good a place as any to ask if anyone has tried to get people in their own circle of friends to sit and watch movies that might enlighten them? I am thinking of starting some kind of freeman private club. I would like to be able to talk directly to people about taking their freedom back. I would also like to hang around and drink some beer and listen to some good music in a place that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I have to do some research before I do anything. I'm thinking along the lines of a biker club without the bikes and violence. Don't get me wrong I own a Harley and ride it proudly..

Chessmaster wrote on Nov 23rd, 2009 at 11:27am:

Mic Helms wrote on Nov 18th, 2009 at 2:43pm: It's interesting that within the system people are combative against each other and always trying to best each other, but they *believe* that they are a community. Give them a real community, and they are stand-offish and afraid to even check it out. I wonder how we can counteract such brainwashing. This seems to be as good a place as any to ask if anyone has tried to get people in their own circle of friends to sit and watch movies that might enlighten them? I am thinking of starting some kind of freeman private club. I would like to be able to talk directly to people about taking their freedom back. I would also like to hang around and drink some beer and listen to some good music in a place that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I have to do some research before I do anything. I'm thinking along the lines of a biker club without the bikes and violence. Don't get me wrong I own a Harley and ride it proudly..

What country are you in?

So far, Only (3) Three of us here have never registered, and never voted.  I am one of the three, that leaves (2) Two left...stand UP and be counted! ..don't be shy..

Mic Helms wrote on Nov 23rd, 2009 at 12:00pm:

Chessmaster wrote on Nov 23rd, 2009 at 11:27am: Mic Helms wrote on Nov 18th, 2009 at 2:43pm: It's interesting that within the system people are combative against each other and always trying to best each other, but they *believe* that they are a community. Give them a real community, and they are stand-offish and afraid to even check it out. I wonder how we can counteract such brainwashing. This seems to be as good a place as any to ask if anyone has tried to get people in their own circle of friends to sit and watch movies that might enlighten them? I am thinking of starting some kind of freeman private club. I would like to be able to talk directly to people about taking their freedom back. I would also like to hang around and drink some beer and listen to some good music in a place that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I have to do some research before I do anything. I'm thinking along the lines of a biker club without the bikes and violence. Don't get me wrong I own a Harley and ride it proudly.. What country are you in?

Drinking and trying to understand this vast twisted law we are under right now may slow that process down by years! A small mistake in reading the laws can make it read a 180 in the other direction and that is what they want you to do so you will never figure out what they are really doing.

wrote on Nov 24th, 2009 at 12:24am:

So far, Only (3) Three of us here have never registered, and never voted.  I am one of the three, that leaves (2) Two left...stand UP and be counted! ..don't be shy..

I wished I knew this 2 years ago. Well you can't cry over spilt milk only thing to do now is correct it.  

I lived in Colorado for 20 years but I moved back to my home country of Illinois about 13 years ago.

Jerry wrote on Nov 24th, 2009 at 9:19am:

Mic Helms wrote on Nov 23rd, 2009 at 12:00pm: Chessmaster wrote on Nov 23rd, 2009 at 11:27am: Mic Helms wrote on Nov 18th, 2009 at 2:43pm: It's interesting that within the system people are combative against each other and always trying to best each other, but they *believe* that they are a community. Give them a real community, and they are stand-offish and afraid to even check it out. I wonder how we can counteract such brainwashing. This seems to be as good a place as any to ask if anyone has tried to get people in their own circle of friends to sit and watch movies that might enlighten them? I am thinking of starting some kind of freeman private club. I would like to be able to talk directly to people about taking their freedom back. I would also like to hang around and drink some beer and listen to some good music in a place that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I have to do some research before I do anything. I'm thinking along the lines of a biker club without the bikes and violence. Don't get me wrong I own a Harley and ride it proudly.. What country are you in? Drinking and trying to understand this vast twisted law we are under right now may slow that process down by years! A small mistake in reading the laws can make it read a 180 in the other direction and that is what they want you to do so you will never figure out what they are really doing.

I dunno.... when you take away all the distractions, you're left with something pretty straightforward.

Chessmaster wrote on Nov 24th, 2009 at 10:18am:

I lived in Colorado for 20 years but I moved back to my home country of Illinois about 13 years ago.

The question is, do you still vote?

[smiley=speechless.gif]

LB Bork wrote on Dec 5th, 2009 at 2:11am:

Chessmaster wrote on Nov 24th, 2009 at 10:18am: I lived in Colorado for 20 years but I moved back to my home country of Illinois about 13 years ago. The question is, do you still vote? [smiley=speechless.gif]

No I don't vote anymore but I haven't turned in my voter registration card yet. I don't understand how to do it properly or how to become a State national. I have read The Red Amendment but at the end you said to go the State National web site to get the remedy but there is nothing there as of yet. I would rather do nothing than to do it wrong.

Chessmaster wrote on Dec 6th, 2009 at 7:35am:

LB Bork wrote on Dec 5th, 2009 at 2:11am: Chessmaster wrote on Nov 24th, 2009 at 10:18am: I lived in Colorado for 20 years but I moved back to my home country of Illinois about 13 years ago. The question is, do you still vote? [smiley=speechless.gif] No I don't vote anymore but I haven't turned in my voter registration card yet. I don't understand how to do it properly or how to become a State national. I have read The Red Amendment but at the end you said to go the State National web site to get the remedy but there is nothing there as of yet. I would rather do nothing than to do it wrong.

I grabbed this:  http://www.pacinlaw.us/pdf/Voter_Cancellation.php

Took it over into Word, and searched the Internet for the following for those it states needing notified, including the county I'm in.

Here are the names/addresses for my area:

Georgia/Carroll County Department of Elections Registered Mail # : 0 000 000 000
Attn: James Gamble
423 College Street Room 302
Carrollton, Georgia 30117

Karen C. Handel
Secretary of State
Elections Division
1104 West Tower
2 Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. SE
Atlanta, GA 30334

Thurbert E. Baker
Office of the Attorney General
40 Capitol Square, SW
Atlanta, GA 30334

Eric Holder
Attorney General of the U.S.
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001

I'd need four copies to send to all four and send them registered or certified mail with the Registered Mail # : 0 000 000 000  Whatever the number is for each.

Private message LB for any other questions you might have.

LeAnne wrote on Dec 6th, 2009 at 10:31am:

Chessmaster wrote on Dec 6th, 2009 at 7:35am: LB Bork wrote on Dec 5th, 2009 at 2:11am: Chessmaster wrote on Nov 24th, 2009 at 10:18am: I lived in Colorado for 20 years but I moved back to my home country of Illinois about 13 years ago. The question is, do you still vote? [smiley=speechless.gif] No I don't vote anymore but I haven't turned in my voter registration card yet. I don't understand how to do it properly or how to become a State national. I have read The Red Amendment but at the end you said to go the State National web site to get the remedy but there is nothing there as of yet. I would rather do nothing than to do it wrong. I grabbed this:  http://www.pacinlaw.us/pdf/Voter_Cancellation.php Took it over into Word, and searched the Internet for the following for those it states needing notified, including the county I'm in. Here are the names/addresses for my area: Georgia/Carroll County Department of Elections Registered Mail # : 0 000 000 000 Attn: James Gamble 423 College Street Room 302 Carrollton, Georgia 30117 Karen C. Handel Secretary of State Elections Division 1104 West Tower 2 Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. SE Atlanta, GA 30334 Thurbert E. Baker Office of the Attorney General 40 Capitol Square, SW Atlanta, GA 30334 Eric Holder Attorney General of the U.S. U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530-0001 I'd need four copies to send to all four and send them registered or certified mail with the Registered Mail # : 0 000 000 000  Whatever the number is for each. Private message LB for any other questions you might have.

I have tried to download this at least five times. I have never been able to get it to work. I hade to shut down firefox to get out of an endless loop or something that froze up my system.

I'll send it to you in Word format.  Anyone else who wants this Voter Cancellation in Word format,
private message me and I'll be happy to send it along.

[smiley=1smilie.gif]

Quote:

Here are the names/addresses for my area: Georgia/Carroll County Department of Elections Registered Mail # : 0 000 000 000 Attn: James Gamble 423 College Street Room 302 Carrollton, Georgia 30117 Karen C. Handel Secretary of State Elections Division 1104 West Tower 2 Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. SE Atlanta, GA 30334 Thurbert E. Baker Office of the Attorney General 40 Capitol Square, SW Atlanta, GA 30334 Eric Holder Attorney General of the U.S. U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530-0001 I'd need four copies to send to all four and send them registered or certified mail with the Registered Mail # : 0 000 000 000  Whatever the number is for each.

Way to go LeAnne  [smiley=boggie.gif] You're on your way... What are you others waiting for  [smiley=hmmm.gif]

Chessmaster wrote on Dec 6th, 2009 at 7:35am:

No I don't vote anymore but I haven't turned in my voter registration card yet. I don't understand how to do it properly or how to become a State national. I have read The Red Amendment but at the end you said to go the State National web site to get the remedy but there is nothing there as of yet. I would rather do nothing than to do it wrong.

Information on the process for becoming a state national can be found here: http://www.pacgroups.us/nationality

Have you spent the $450.00 to get the necessary information to regain your freedom?

No, I did not spend more than $35.00 to get the information necessary to regain my freedom....
I thought you'd already read The Red Amendment, though, and understood it.

As for HOW to go about applying the information covered in The Red Amendment, I saw that I had two options.

My first choice was that I could do it all myself. It is made pretty clear what you need to do in order to become "without the United States," so knowing WHAT to do was pretty straight forward.

However, there were a few things to consider when I looked HOW to go about it:
1) Researching what all I need to actually do
2) Study what the administrative law said about what had to happen
3) Draw up the documents, ensuring every "i" was dotted and "t" was crossed, according to what I knew at the time
4) Have the documents checked for legal and law errors by someone else, probably an attorney of some sort, and then pay them about $200.00 for every hour of their time
5) Rewrite the documents because the attorney found a flaw in the presentation, and an un-dotted "i"
6) Get everything ready to fire out at once
7) Cross my fingers
8) Send the documents to the right people (I hope)
9) Pray that all goes well
10) Deal with any fallout on my own, by myself, with only me as a resource

-- OR --

My second choice was made apparent when I found out that the Correction of Nationality Process offered by PAC was what I was going to do anyway. I know that if any "hiccups" had been encountered while doing prior corrections, these would have been addressed. I would not be "cutting the path through the jungle" as it were, but instead taking advantage of a path that was already well-trod.

There are other people who are desperate to begin their own Correction process, but for whatever reason aren't able to at this time.

I had the opportunity to start the process, and I took it.

I hope that answers your question.

It's exactly the same for me as with Mic. I paid the $35 (purchase of The Red Amendment) for the information of what has transpired and to regain my freedom. I am also opting for the second choice. On my own, it could take years of study! It would be a full-time job doing it on my own. There's no way I could afford an attorney to do this for me as attorney fees are astronomically high.

Look at John Ainsworth, who took two years off to know what he knows until he ran out of money.  Many of us do not have that luxury.  My time is precious and I do spend every spare moment in study.  I realize I must study law in order to know how to assert my status once it is corrected.

One state national had this to say:

"In regards to the matter of PAC, I had completed the status correction process about six years ago. This process is impeccable. Other groups have all ignored or avoided the only point to address: the jurisdiction of the “United States”. LB's book entitled “Red Amendment” takes one through finely detailed history and irrefutable facts that outline and define the crux of our problems with this out of control corporation. The Red Amendment documents the sources drawn on to prove and support the fraud that has been perpetrated against all people of the fifty nations. During my process I have had the DOJ come to speak with me in where they questioned me on many different issues. I have a copy of their report in where it states, She will not be happy until she is out. This statement acknowledges there are definitely two different statuses/categories I can be in.

"LB has spent many years and countless hours researching all points to reference and cross-reference his procedure. I have listened to others spout theories. Theories are like opinions; we all have them. I will take the facts, the truth, and the knowledge. Do not take my opinion here. Get his book The Red Amendment and read it for yourself. Then read the sources that are quoted and decide for yourself. Out of jail. In jail."

I may have left out a sentence or two, but I have spoken with many State Nationals and freedom isn't free.  I would either spend the years it would take me to learn administrative law (cost in time and possible mistakes) or the cost of attorney to do it for me.  It's just not feasible to me.  

All the research has been done, the paperwork is done, the instruction is done, I send the money (I have to save my pennies, nickels, and dimes), do my part in the contractual agreement with PAC, and get a heck of an education in doing so (the process itself is an education, I'm told), and I am finally free of the de facto government.  I then join the State Nationals Association where we continue to learn from one another how to remain free as well as work with PAC Groups to help others to be free.

PAC Groups is formed for us to come together and work together toward building up our communities through education, learning to take back local commerce to oust the multi-national corporations, and so much more.  

I hope this helps in your decision.

I have never voted nor have I ever registered to vote.  The reason why I never registered to vote was because I always believed that the Federal Government would use that information to draft me if there was ever another draft.

Freihals wrote on Feb 11th, 2010 at 7:12pm:

I have never voted nor have I ever registered to vote.  The reason why I never registered to vote was because I always believed that the Federal Government would use that information to draft me if there was ever another draft.

Wrong department. DoD uses your selective service card to maintain the list of all available males 18-25 who are not disabled.  There will never be another 'draft' it is now under executive order through homeland defense via CENTCOM. Read the Defense Authority Act 2002 or 03.

Does not really matter we have 40k garrisoned troops under CENTCOM training for civil disturbance, oh and national emergencies. Hahahahaha.

Cheers
III

wrote on Feb 19th, 2010 at 5:11pm:

Freihals wrote on Feb 11th, 2010 at 7:12pm: I have never voted nor have I ever registered to vote.  The reason why I never registered to vote was because I always believed that the Federal Government would use that information to draft me if there was ever another draft. Wrong department. DoD uses your selective service card to maintain the list of all available males 18-25 who are not disabled.  There will never be another 'draft' it is now under executive order through homeland defense via CENTCOM. Read the Defense Authority Act 2002 or 03. Does not really matter we have 40k garrisoned troops under CENTCOM training for civil disturbance, oh and national emergencies. Hahahahaha. Cheers III

So I suppose that the only reason that the DoD would know that you'd not registered for "Selective Service" is to check if you'd registered to vote. It is my understanding that one can get into hot-water for not registering for the SS (Hail Hitler!) and it would seem logical to keep the support for the insurgents to a minimum, if possible, in order to stay off their radar.

What "department" is responsible for treating everyone like the communist criminals they are? When are those who are seemingly knowledgeable about Military affairs going to pull their collective heads out of their hind-quarters and HELP those of us who have taken a post-rectal-asphyxiation look around to see the DOMESTIC ENEMYS of the Republics are those that are in charge of the US military complex? Which department is in charge of THAT?

Haven't you ever seen Star Wars? Don't you even REMOTELY understand what is going on and why the 14th Amendment puts someone who has been in the military at odds with the very rights such people claim to protect?

Mic Helms wrote yesterday at 11:01pm: 
Quote:

post-rectal-asphyxiation look around

LMAO!

wrote on Feb 19th, 2010 at 5:11pm:

Freihals wrote on Feb 11th, 2010 at 7:12pm: I have never voted nor have I ever registered to vote.  The reason why I never registered to vote was because I always believed that the Federal Government would use that information to draft me if there was ever another draft. Wrong department. DoD uses your selective service card to maintain the list of all available males 18-25 who are not disabled.  There will never be another 'draft' it is now under executive order through homeland defense via CENTCOM. Read the Defense Authority Act 2002 or 03. Does not really matter we have 40k garrisoned troops under CENTCOM training for civil disturbance, oh and national emergencies. Hahahahaha. Cheers III

http://www.notmygovernment.us/forum/images/tj_wits.jpg

Gene Simmons!?!

When I participated in this poll I put never voted never registered because I never voted and never registered before.  Now in Texas on all the Freedom Radio Stations here in Texas there all pushing for Debra Madina to become Governor and everybody needs to Vote for Debra Madina because she is a Liberty Candidate. She still has to answer to the Lieutenant Governor if she does become the Governor of Texas and there just making the problem worse by infurthering peoples slavery.  Then when some people try to bring up the 14th Amendment they try to tell them that it only applies to the freed slaves no matter what the supreme court said and they said the supreme court is wrong and we need to overturn that case.  A lot of them are good on Statue Law, Code of Criminal Procedure and How to File Criminal Charges but when it comes to the 14th Amendment issue there not very good at that.

Freihals wrote on Feb 21st, 2010 at 8:41pm:

When I participated in this poll I put never voted never registered because I never voted and never registered before.  Now in Texas on all the Freedom Radio Stations here in Texas there all pushing for Debra Madina to become Governor and everybody needs to Vote for Debra Madina because she is a Liberty Candidate. She still has to answer to the Lieutenant Governor if she does become the Governor of Texas and there just making the problem worse by infurthering peoples slavery.  Then when some people try to bring up the 14th Amendment they try to tell them that it only applies to the freed slaves no matter what the supreme court said and they said the supreme court is wrong and we need to overturn that case.  A lot of them are good on Statue Law, Code of Criminal Procedure and How to File Criminal Charges but when it comes to the 14th Amendment issue there not very good at that.

Yes. There are a lot of ignorant people out there. I guess they have not a clue what private law is...
And I venture that all those people in federal prison are "Freed Slaves".

I have not registered, nor have I ever voted.

I knew the system was screwed since I was able to differentiate between my world and the one around me.  Dont ask me what age that was because that sort of reasoning came after.
I havent filed income tax since the early 90s, dont have a drivers license, and live at what most would consider a survival level.  Recently below that (relying on family) which has finally prompted me to move to action again.  Boy, I would really like to start to network with like minded individuals......

+5

I withdrew my registration a few months back. In Colorado there is an option to do so. I now realize there is more to it than just withdrawing registration.

Kavi, I am with you.  I too never have registered or participated in elections.  Once I became of age it never made sense to me.  I still have a drivers license but the last three times I contested my "tickets", I won by representing myself.  I look forward to the day we can completely unplug.  In the mean time my girlfriend and I continue to prepare ourselves with the tools to keep moving forward.

Here is a video regarding voting.  I think this guy does an excellent job making his point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBltLemsM

Here is the link to the voting video I wanted to share from my last post.  Hope this one works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBltLemsM&feature=channel

This is the one I like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBItLemsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBItLemsM

Voting part 2___http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oGMEEE11Lc&feature=channel

Voting part 3___http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2YsJVF-920&feature=channel

I would suggest subscribing to Stef's channel for a reinforcement of our beliefs.

Thanks for getting the video link Chessmaster (I'm not very good at posting).  Freedomain Radio is fantastic and Stef does such a good job expressing his research.  Just watched him interview Peter Schiff and agree his information is most beneficial.

P.S. Stef's free books are a good read too.

Don't vote and never have.

For the longest time I never did register to vote, till one day for some unknown reason I like so many others filled out the stupid card signing away my rights.  If I recall correctly it was to elect G. Bush, my second time was to vote for McCain, I have voted a time or two in local elections.  Now with my new eyes and understanding of the 14th Amendment I have gotten the form to file for removal of myself from that evil registry.  The first step in taking back my God given rights, and placing myself back under the umbrella of the Republic and the common law.

This is one of the subjects you have me intrigued on---voting!

When I left Texas and came to New Mexico, I encountered more political corruption than in Texas. On finding out that Texas Governor Rich Perry is a member of the Bilderberg Group, I wonder how many New Mexico politicos are in that group as well. Considering that our Senator in involved in a bill that would greatly add to the pockets of the global bankers in the way of debit card fees, we pretty much know his story. But never fear, his cousin in Colorado thinks the same way.
It is my patriotic duty to vote you say?
I believe this comes under the realm of standing up and saying---No! I am tired of playing their game.
I wish this book would hurry up and get here.
I wonder if it will teach me things such as this.
For now, I will click on your link and see what I can learn ;)