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[quote author=3F30243F6F5E0 link=1282239611/5#5 date=1291053553]I have been in a battle of intellect with the sovereign citizens and sovereign individuals on Facebook and I will admit, I am loosing the battle in the sense that, there is no way for me to get through to people who honestly believe that they are sovereign; literally, as if they could run off and declare war with foreign nations. I am having better strides with people not familiar with the sovereign citizen movement; its like they grasp the concept of several American nations easier than the "sovereigns".

I received this email this morning from a sovereign individual (he is part of the Republic of The united States that Tim Turner is president of); this is in regards to a comment I made in which I gave the link to pacinlaw.us:

sovereign individual: I disagree with some of that "pacinlaw" stuff.

Me: I don't understand what you disagree with. PAC does not agree with individual sovereignty. Is that it?

sovereign individual: (he attempts to break it down here)

"we the people" - the federalist papers are not law and the ANTI-federalist papers are just as valid, if not more.

"stawman" does not exist - it really is a Cestui Que Trust in Puerto RICO (ever heard of the RICO statutes?) which is the Executor of the US bankruptcy and controls the Treasury.

all Governments are "corporations" - absurdly wrong, Corporations get their legitimate "charters" for a Government, not the other way around. The order in LAW is: CREATOR-MAN-GOV-Corp-slave, none below may have MORE power than the ones above. It is true that the uSA has always been beholden to the corporations that it owes (eg. the East India Trading Co. and therefore the Crown Corp.) the Treaty of Pariis 1783 clearly makes this case, has gone through bankruptcy 3 times.

Government is NOT a "fiction" -- ahhh, "FICTION" means it is not in the "real world", i.e. you can't touch it, or through it in jail. All business, corporations, trusts, governments and anything but Real Property and Living creatures are a "FICTION", a creation of the MIND and not of the CREATOR'S.

UCC is non-sense - UCC is international business law and applies to ALL contracts and business agreements. UCC is the foundation of "Private Law" because it is the rules of AGREEMENT. the UCC is not just for putting a lien on the Cestui Que Trust, it is useful for putting commercial liens on paid public officials who break their OATH of office when they abuse you.

and what you said about sovereign individuals.
If "individuals" were not "sovereign" then a government could not have the power of sovereignty, remember LAW trickles down form the top; CREATOR-MAN-Gov-Corp-slave. Nothing below can have a power greater than the power above. The Creator is Sovereign in the Universe, Man is sovereign on Earth, "Just" governments "protect" those sovereign rights, and Corporations are TEMPORARILY created for projects for the benefit of a community. HOPEFULLY slavery is IL-LEGAL.

Me: NO REPLY![/quote]

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